Hydrogen as a fuel is a waste of electricity or natural gas. Instead of sending Hydrogen, why not send electricity through the existing electricity infrastructure and not have the drastic losses of energy converting electricity to hydrogen and then burning hydrogen with more losses to conversion and heat? Duh.... Wait, what do I need to do to get a handout? I may have to rethink person economics.
Using hydrogen as a storage vehicle is absurdly inefficient due to the loss of energy at each stage of the cycle. Only considered as a part of the suicidal and unscientific net zero nightmare.
Trillions spent to get more costly and unreliable power with massive environmental destruction.
Excellent points about the hazards of working with Hydrogen. It's the smallest of molecules and reacts violently with almost everything.
There are solid cost-benefit reasons that SpaceX does NOT use liquid Hydrogen (LH2). LH2 may be the most efficient fuel by mass. But it's storage and working requirements are insane ^ 10. Every valve, connection, and pipe needs meticulous engineering.
I think NASA belatedly came to the same conclusion after dealing with the Shuttle's LH2 issues.
I see yet another flaw. Natural gas infrastructure has been experimentally used with a 10% hydrogen content. But it would leak like crazy without the trace heavier hydrocarbons from NG to keep it sealed up. It must be completely replaced with new pipeline for any of this to be remotely possible.
I doubt it will. They will build the first one and have massive problems trying to make it work. Hydrogen is pretty unforgiving - chemist's and physicists have been warning the green crowd that their hydrogen dreams do not comport with reality for a long time.
“Take Alpha Ventus, Germany’s first offshore wind farm. Originally planned to run for 20 years, it’s about to be decommissioned after 15.” So you are saying that Wind Farms are not Renewable? Is there a list of wind farms that have been “renewed” or rebuilt? Wind Power is Temporary Power.
Doubling down on stupid. Governments just can’t shake their idiotic notion that if one of their ideas doesn’t work, the only possible explanation must be that it was underfunded and only needs further application of taxpayer money in order to achieve whatever nebulous aim was originally intended.
Come for the Brawl, stay for the insights. Beautiful piece. Have you thought of chatting with some of the other prominent energy Sunstackers to do a piece on the process and chemistry side of the hydrogen systems being put into existence by dumb scientists and bureaucrats? I don't think most people have the least idea how absurd hydrogen is as a scaled up energy source.
As part of an investment thesis I wrote up how it works. This is for green hydrogen, but it is almost as bad for any other generation method due to indecencies littered through the system.
the original sin, though, is the continuous quest to achieve net zero carbon emissions. that flawed basis drives all these other decisions which are hugely wasteful of capital and other resources. and just wait until the first hydrogen pipeline explosion, that will be so entertaining to watch blame be cast about as it becomes clearer that this is just another costly, political boondoggle.
I don't know how they do it, because it requires epic blinkers on, but Germans continue to amaze me. Setting aside my snide remark earlier in the other comment, the search for Russia-free solution continues.
The facts don’t seem to impede the Green Scheme. Green Dreams are creating real life nightmares. Love your insights. At some point this craziness has to implode on itself right????
Hydrogen as a fuel is a waste of electricity or natural gas. Instead of sending Hydrogen, why not send electricity through the existing electricity infrastructure and not have the drastic losses of energy converting electricity to hydrogen and then burning hydrogen with more losses to conversion and heat? Duh.... Wait, what do I need to do to get a handout? I may have to rethink person economics.
Maybe now is the time to start a H2 firm.
Using hydrogen as a storage vehicle is absurdly inefficient due to the loss of energy at each stage of the cycle. Only considered as a part of the suicidal and unscientific net zero nightmare.
Trillions spent to get more costly and unreliable power with massive environmental destruction.
Please explain...
“Suicidal” seems to be the key word here.
I guess loss of energy are actually seen as good opportunities to divert money at each step of the process 💰 .
And who will dare to ask too many questions on such a nice, green and shiny project ?
Imagine if a terrorist decides to use explosives on a hydrogen pipeline.
How can anyone police 28,000 kilometres of hydrogen pipeline?
Current European policies are a very good example of cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.
Excellent points about the hazards of working with Hydrogen. It's the smallest of molecules and reacts violently with almost everything.
There are solid cost-benefit reasons that SpaceX does NOT use liquid Hydrogen (LH2). LH2 may be the most efficient fuel by mass. But it's storage and working requirements are insane ^ 10. Every valve, connection, and pipe needs meticulous engineering.
I think NASA belatedly came to the same conclusion after dealing with the Shuttle's LH2 issues.
Great example!
I see yet another flaw. Natural gas infrastructure has been experimentally used with a 10% hydrogen content. But it would leak like crazy without the trace heavier hydrocarbons from NG to keep it sealed up. It must be completely replaced with new pipeline for any of this to be remotely possible.
Pipeline makers can look forward to making good money if this 28,000km network comes to fruition.
I doubt it will. They will build the first one and have massive problems trying to make it work. Hydrogen is pretty unforgiving - chemist's and physicists have been warning the green crowd that their hydrogen dreams do not comport with reality for a long time.
“Take Alpha Ventus, Germany’s first offshore wind farm. Originally planned to run for 20 years, it’s about to be decommissioned after 15.” So you are saying that Wind Farms are not Renewable? Is there a list of wind farms that have been “renewed” or rebuilt? Wind Power is Temporary Power.
It’s safe to assume that practically all wind farms older than 15-20 years have been rebuilt or decommissioned. That’s when the subsidies run out.
Anybody who has ever maintained a boat anchored in salt water has clear ideas how harsh the environment is
Ah ha .. hydrogen that wonderful gas which just loves to explode, leak , and cause metal embrittlement. What could possibly go wrong.
Never waste a good opportunity to spend taxpayer money building inefficient technology (and enrich middlemen in the process). So smart.
A good week for the H2 industry.
Doubling down on stupid. Governments just can’t shake their idiotic notion that if one of their ideas doesn’t work, the only possible explanation must be that it was underfunded and only needs further application of taxpayer money in order to achieve whatever nebulous aim was originally intended.
Other people’s money is easy to spend.
Come for the Brawl, stay for the insights. Beautiful piece. Have you thought of chatting with some of the other prominent energy Sunstackers to do a piece on the process and chemistry side of the hydrogen systems being put into existence by dumb scientists and bureaucrats? I don't think most people have the least idea how absurd hydrogen is as a scaled up energy source.
Thanks a lot! And that’s a great idea, I’ve been meaning to dive deeper into the chemistry and process side. Appreciate the nudge!
As part of an investment thesis I wrote up how it works. This is for green hydrogen, but it is almost as bad for any other generation method due to indecencies littered through the system.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14AKu3mVeEIw8eKKVPL0mNi5yejTtWZ8wlHzefpeCQ_s/edit?usp=drivesdk
Good stuff!
the original sin, though, is the continuous quest to achieve net zero carbon emissions. that flawed basis drives all these other decisions which are hugely wasteful of capital and other resources. and just wait until the first hydrogen pipeline explosion, that will be so entertaining to watch blame be cast about as it becomes clearer that this is just another costly, political boondoggle.
Another Hindenburg moment in the making.
I don't know how they do it, because it requires epic blinkers on, but Germans continue to amaze me. Setting aside my snide remark earlier in the other comment, the search for Russia-free solution continues.
Pink Hydrogen, just in time for Pride Month - lol. A very interesting and entertaining article, Brawl.
Thank you! 😂
Maybe Germany should get better at physics and build nukes of their own.
Oh... right.
Feelings over fission.
They need to watch Dr Strangelove a few times. (How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb).
The facts don’t seem to impede the Green Scheme. Green Dreams are creating real life nightmares. Love your insights. At some point this craziness has to implode on itself right????
Thank you! It’s shocking how the mainstream media usually doesn’t question the viability of the green scheme. The implosion could take a while.